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Kekkei Tota, Kekkei Genkai and Kettou Kekkei [Fo seriouz]

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PostSubject: Kekkei Tota, Kekkei Genkai and Kettou Kekkei [Fo seriouz] Wed 03 Apr 2013, 10:56 pm

Quote :

Name: Kettou Kekkei (Dual Bloodline)
Rank: S
Type: Chakra Based
Physical Requirements: Must have Elementalist
Training Requirements: A 2000 word training post is required to gain this special characteristic.
Description: Kettou kekkei or Duel Bloodline is the ability to have and create two simultaneous elemental combination bloodlines through fusing multiple chakra natures. A powerful enough ninja is capable of creating two advanced elements but they must require and master three elements to do so. For this to be possible the ninja must already have a single advanced element Kekkei Genkai through a clan e.g Yuki Clan with Hyouton and possess the special characteristic 'Elementalist'. By then training with another element they are able to use their hereditary ability to fuse another two base elements to form another combination element. The maximum that a ninja is allowed to create is two, and only the most powerful elementalist ninja are capable of this feat.

Name: Kekkei Tōta (Bloodline Selection)
Rank: S
Type: Chakra Based
Physical Requirements: Must have Elementalist
Training Requirements: A 2000 word training post is required to gain this special characteristic.
Description: Kekkei Tōta or Bloodline Selection is an advanced for of a Kekkei Genkai. This is seen as the most powerful form of a combination element Kekkei Genkai and only a very select few have ever been able to achieve this level of nature manipulation in the ninja worlds history. Firstly, for Kekkei Tōta to be possible the ninja must already have a single advanced element Kekkei Genkai through a clan e.g Yuki Clan with Hyouton and possess the special characteristic 'Elementalist'. Through select difficult training and years of mastery they are able to take their Bloodline Limit to an advanced level by fusing three elements simultaneously to form a single three-part combination element. This allows the ninja to gain possibly one of the most powerful Kekkei Genkai's in the world. Though through this process they will lose their single advanced element when this new one is formed. An example of a Kekkei Tōta is Dust Release which combines Earth, Wind and Fire elements.


So basically, what I am seeing here is the limiting of people who choose to not be in a clan. I can't find anything that allows someone to make an Advanced element, yet people who are Already in a clan are allowed to make a second kekkei genkai AND a kekkei Tota?

Seems a bit much in my opinion, though it is legit. Still, I would like to see it changed. People should be able to make an Advanced element just like anyone else, which makes people who go Clanless a bit more fair when compared to the clan folk.

As to the Kekkei Tota, I fail to see why Kekkei Tota needs to have Kekkei Genkai as a pre-req, considering you mix 3 basic elements into it, rather then a basic element and an advanced element. It's not how it works, nor is it how it should work.

Kekkei Tota = Bloodline selection, not Advanced element mixing. To make things fair, I say we should allow people to make an Advanced element regardless of being in a clan with an Advanced element, as well as allowing people that have reached the appropriate rank and req's to make a Kekkei Tota.

special cases:
 

Edit:
Just wanted to point out another mistake in the Kekkei Genkai, seeing as Kekkei Genkai are not always Advanced Elements, seeing as Kaguya do not have an advanced element. By the wording in these things, a Kaguya COULD loophole the "Kettou Kekkei" and "Kekkei Tota". Felt like that needed to be pointed out.
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PostSubject: Re: Kekkei Tota, Kekkei Genkai and Kettou Kekkei [Fo seriouz] Fri 05 Apr 2013, 1:16 am

If I'm interpreting this correctly, then I think the best solution is to allow SOME KKG (limited, staff selection) without having to force a certain clan on someone.

The current workaround isn't too bad - make a character from the clan with the KKG you want, use the history to make him/her estranged from the clan (or something) and you have what you're after. But I can see why this might feel a bit... imperfect to some people.
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PostSubject: Re: Kekkei Tota, Kekkei Genkai and Kettou Kekkei [Fo seriouz] Fri 05 Apr 2013, 1:23 am

It would be quite hard for people who already have a set plot, while most of the Advanced elements have been made in the Anime/Manga, while others are pretty much denied here, such as Lava, Sand, Scorch, etc etc. People who have their background worked out can't actually say "Yea I was born to this and that clan but I just figured it out". It wouldn't work for several reasons.

1. People need to have an Advanced Element before they are allowed to make a second KKG or a KKT.
2. There is no option to make a first KKG.
3. People who go clanless would therefore lack all opportunities to make a KKG, a KKK [hehe, this means Kuklux too TEEHEE ] or a KKT.

So that's why I think things should be made more accessible to the non-clan members or the people that started without an Advanced Element. Because they can't make a first Advanced element, basically because they are in some way more retarded then someone who already has one, they can not get a second KKG [which makes sense] or a Kekkei Tota [which is not even related to Kekkei Genkai or Advanced elements in itself].

So that's why those things would be hard to work around, and why I still think it needs to be changed.
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PostSubject: Re: Kekkei Tota, Kekkei Genkai and Kettou Kekkei [Fo seriouz] Fri 05 Apr 2013, 1:25 am

The SC are being reworked as we speak so most, if not all SC are going to be reworked or be given slight edits. Some will be removed and I think Kekkei Tota is one of them.

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PostSubject: Re: Kekkei Tota, Kekkei Genkai and Kettou Kekkei [Fo seriouz] Fri 05 Apr 2013, 1:26 am

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

Why remove Kekkei Tota and keep crap like Edo Tensei on the site? -___-
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PostSubject: Re: Kekkei Tota, Kekkei Genkai and Kettou Kekkei [Fo seriouz] Fri 05 Apr 2013, 1:30 am

Celene's Dino wrote:
It would be quite hard for people who already have a set plot, while most of the Advanced elements have been made in the Anime/Manga, while others are pretty much denied here, such as Lava, Sand, Scorch, etc etc. People who have their background worked out can't actually say "Yea I was born to this and that clan but I just figured it out". It wouldn't work for several reasons.

1. People need to have an Advanced Element before they are allowed to make a second KKG or a KKT.
2. There is no option to make a first KKG.
3. People who go clanless would therefore lack all opportunities to make a KKG, a KKK [hehe, this means Kuklux too ] or a KKT.

So that's why I think things should be made more accessible to the non-clan members or the people that started without an Advanced Element. Because they can't make a first Advanced element, basically because they are in some way more retarded then someone who already has one, they can not get a second KKG [which makes sense] or a Kekkei Tota [which is not even related to Kekkei Genkai or Advanced elements in itself].

So that's why those things would be hard to work around, and why I still think it needs to be changed.
Oh don't get me wrong - I don't like the workaround, myself. I just avoid it, rather than confront it.

Which... is what I'm going to do now. Because I'm too tired and will probably embarrass myself by saying something stupid if I try. :-S
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PostSubject: Re: Kekkei Tota, Kekkei Genkai and Kettou Kekkei [Fo seriouz] Fri 05 Apr 2013, 2:18 am

Just to point something out, in the material this game is based on a "kekkai tota" didn't use an combination element. As far as I can find, the abilities of such (ex Dust Release) were three basic elements used in combination by extremely experienced ninja (kages mostly). Again going back to Dust Release, it was an ability Onoki supposedly learned from his predecessor whom he had no blood relation to.

Given that, I would say keep the SC but make it require just 3 basic elements instead of 3 basic and 1 advanced. That would make it a bit more consistent and balanced in that its taking 2 SC's (Kekkai tota and elementalist) to do what those who pick a clan do without any. Well at least until someone gets the bright idea to make clan abilities an SC similar to how jinchuriki are handled now.
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PostSubject: Re: Kekkei Tota, Kekkei Genkai and Kettou Kekkei [Fo seriouz] Fri 05 Apr 2013, 5:47 am

NuclearTreerat wrote:
Just to point something out, in the material this game is based on a "kekkai tota" didn't use an combination element. As far as I can find, the abilities of such (ex Dust Release) were three basic elements used in combination by extremely experienced ninja (kages mostly). Again going back to Dust Release, it was an ability Onoki supposedly learned from his predecessor whom he had no blood relation to.

Given that, I would say keep the SC but make it require just 3 basic elements instead of 3 basic and 1 advanced. That would make it a bit more consistent and balanced in that its taking 2 SC's (Kekkai tota and elementalist) to do what those who pick a clan do without any. Well at least until someone gets the bright idea to make clan abilities an SC similar to how jinchuriki are handled now.

Aside from the clan abilities becoming an SC, I agree with this entirely, seeing as it is what I have been trying to point out. With what Nuke pointed out about how there was no blood relation to the one learning the jutsu and the one teaching it, having a clan background for these things makes no sense.
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PostSubject: Re: Kekkei Tota, Kekkei Genkai and Kettou Kekkei [Fo seriouz] Fri 05 Apr 2013, 7:09 am

Special Characteristics wrote:
Name: Kekkei Tōta (Bloodline Selection)
Rank: S
Type: Chakra Based
Physical Requirements: Must have Elementalist
Training Requirements: A 2000 word training post is required to gain this special characteristic.
Description: Kekkei Tōta or Bloodline Selection is an advanced for of a Kekkei Genkai. This is seen as the most powerful form of a combination element Kekkei Genkai and only a very select few have ever been able to achieve this level of nature manipulation in the ninja worlds history. Firstly, for Kekkei Tōta to be possible the ninja must already have a single advanced element Kekkei Genkai through a clan e.g Yuki Clan with Hyouton and possess the special characteristic 'Elementalist'. Through select difficult training and years of mastery they are able to take their Bloodline Limit to an advanced level by fusing three elements simultaneously to form a single three-part combination element. This allows the ninja to gain possibly one of the most powerful Kekkei Genkai's in the world. Though through this process they will lose their single advanced element when this new one is formed. An example of a Kekkei Tōta is Dust Release which combines Earth, Wind and Fire elements.
Refer to the bolded section. I'm not sure if this is the case, but I always saw the original purpose of this SC to be a means of upgrading one's Advanced Element, and not creating a brand new element. Basically, two of the elements would be used to create the Advanced Element (Mokuton, Hyouton, etc.), and the third element would then give the Advanced Element an additional trait, along with the ones it already possessed. So, a Hyouton user could add X elemental affinity to their ice, and give it an added ability. This old application gives an idea of what I'm saying, and is more or less the reason why I interpret the SC in the aforementioned manner. As you can see, the character adds Katon to Mokuton to create a new, more powerful version of the latter. It's not a new element exactly; just an "advanced" version that replaces the old one.

That being said, I do agree with Nuclear's point. Jinton is supposedly exclusive only to Muu and Onoki, and as far as we know, they have no blood relation. Taking that into account, yes, Kekkei Tota should indeed be available without the requirment of an Advanced Element. However, as stated above, the SC's description states that it offers the user an upgrade for their original Advanced Element. The problem with the SC isn't that it shouldn't require an Advanced Element as a prerequisite, but that it uses Jinton as an example; the element in question does not fit the SC's description. Really, if you remove that final sentence about Jinton, then the SC makes much more sense.
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PostSubject: Re: Kekkei Tota, Kekkei Genkai and Kettou Kekkei [Fo seriouz] Fri 05 Apr 2013, 8:34 am

Ulkira wrote:
Special Characteristics wrote:
Name: Kekkei Tōta (Bloodline Selection)
Rank: S
Type: Chakra Based
Physical Requirements: Must have Elementalist
Training Requirements: A 2000 word training post is required to gain this special characteristic.
Description: Kekkei Tōta or Bloodline Selection is an advanced for of a Kekkei Genkai. This is seen as the most powerful form of a combination element Kekkei Genkai and only a very select few have ever been able to achieve this level of nature manipulation in the ninja worlds history. Firstly, for Kekkei Tōta to be possible the ninja must already have a single advanced element Kekkei Genkai through a clan e.g Yuki Clan with Hyouton and possess the special characteristic 'Elementalist'. Through select difficult training and years of mastery they are able to take their Bloodline Limit to an advanced level by fusing three elements simultaneously to form a single three-part combination element. This allows the ninja to gain possibly one of the most powerful Kekkei Genkai's in the world. Though through this process they will lose their single advanced element when this new one is formed. An example of a Kekkei Tōta is Dust Release which combines Earth, Wind and Fire elements.
Refer to the bolded section. I'm not sure if this is the case, but I always saw the original purpose of this SC to be a means of upgrading one's Advanced Element, and not creating a brand new element. Basically, two of the elements would be used to create the Advanced Element (Mokuton, Hyouton, etc.), and the third element would then give the Advanced Element an additional trait, along with the ones it already possessed. So, a Hyouton user could add X elemental affinity to their ice, and give it an added ability. This old application gives an idea of what I'm saying, and is more or less the reason why I interpret the SC in the aforementioned manner. As you can see, the character adds Katon to Mokuton to create a new, more powerful version of the latter. It's not a new element exactly; just an "advanced" version that replaces the old one.

That being said, I do agree with Nuclear's point. Jinton is supposedly exclusive only to Muu and Onoki, and as far as we know, they have no blood relation. Taking that into account, yes, Kekkei Tota should indeed be available without the requirment of an Advanced Element. However, as stated above, the SC's description states that it offers the user an upgrade for their original Advanced Element. The problem with the SC isn't that it shouldn't require an Advanced Element as a prerequisite, but that it uses Jinton as an example; the element in question does not fit the SC's description. Really, if you remove that final sentence about Jinton, then the SC makes much more sense.

Firstly this.

Emperor of Rock wrote:
The SC are being reworked as we speak so most, if not all SC are going to be reworked or be given slight edits. Some will be removed and I think Kekkei Tota is one of them.


Then this. COOKIE!

It's going to come down to people approaching me personally wanting something like this than having it on the Special Characteristic list when administrators wouldn't be inclined to handing this out to just anybody. You'd have more shot at getting a bijuu, especially taking the SC's rank into account.

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PostSubject: Re: Kekkei Tota, Kekkei Genkai and Kettou Kekkei [Fo seriouz] Fri 05 Apr 2013, 6:06 pm

That hardly seems fair to me, considering it is something that needs a lot of requirements, and seems like a dick move to just go "Nope, dun like you, can't have it" when applying for the SC. If people went through the work of getting all of those requirements in place and can just get shot down like that, then I have to say that I am rather disappointed in people here.
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PostSubject: Re: Kekkei Tota, Kekkei Genkai and Kettou Kekkei [Fo seriouz] Fri 05 Apr 2013, 10:44 pm

Celene's Dino wrote:
That hardly seems fair to me, considering it is something that needs a lot of requirements, and seems like a dick move to just go "Nope, dun like you, can't have it" when applying for the SC. If people went through the work of getting all of those requirements in place and can just get shot down like that, then I have to say that I am rather disappointed in people here.

Agreed.
Especially how stuff has been happening.

Dolan
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PostSubject: Re: Kekkei Tota, Kekkei Genkai and Kettou Kekkei [Fo seriouz] Sat 06 Apr 2013, 2:01 am

YoungMoney wrote:
Celene's Dino wrote:
That hardly seems fair to me, considering it is something that needs a lot of requirements, and seems like a dick move to just go "Nope, dun like you, can't have it" when applying for the SC. If people went through the work of getting all of those requirements in place and can just get shot down like that, then I have to say that I am rather disappointed in people here.

Agreed.
Especially how stuff has been happening.

Dolan

You always hear how people give out stuff no one should be having, there being no exception towards crap like Edo tensei apparently being on the list of things people can have with admin permission. I get how people can have stuff with their permission when the Admins trust people, and how trust comes with time, but sometimes you need to cut people some slack and be less harsh. We know how things went on Ingoo, and how a bunch of chosen folk got all the right perks, and if such a thing is actually happening here too, then how exactly are we any better...
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PostSubject: Re: Kekkei Tota, Kekkei Genkai and Kettou Kekkei [Fo seriouz] Sat 06 Apr 2013, 2:29 am

Celene's Dino wrote:
YoungMoney wrote:
Celene's Dino wrote:
That hardly seems fair to me, considering it is something that needs a lot of requirements, and seems like a dick move to just go "Nope, dun like you, can't have it" when applying for the SC. If people went through the work of getting all of those requirements in place and can just get shot down like that, then I have to say that I am rather disappointed in people here.

Agreed.
Especially how stuff has been happening.

Dolan

You always hear how people give out stuff no one should be having, there being no exception towards crap like Edo tensei apparently being on the list of things people can have with admin permission. I get how people can have stuff with their permission when the Admins trust people, and how trust comes with time, but sometimes you need to cut people some slack and be less harsh. We know how things went on Ingoo, and how a bunch of chosen folk got all the right perks, and if such a thing is actually happening here too, then how exactly are we any better...

Well said, brother...
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PostSubject: Re: Kekkei Tota, Kekkei Genkai and Kettou Kekkei [Fo seriouz] Sat 06 Apr 2013, 2:41 am

Phantom Heart wrote:
Celene's Dino wrote:
YoungMoney wrote:
Celene's Dino wrote:
That hardly seems fair to me, considering it is something that needs a lot of requirements, and seems like a dick move to just go "Nope, dun like you, can't have it" when applying for the SC. If people went through the work of getting all of those requirements in place and can just get shot down like that, then I have to say that I am rather disappointed in people here.

Agreed.
Especially how stuff has been happening.

Dolan

You always hear how people give out stuff no one should be having, there being no exception towards crap like Edo tensei apparently being on the list of things people can have with admin permission. I get how people can have stuff with their permission when the Admins trust people, and how trust comes with time, but sometimes you need to cut people some slack and be less harsh. We know how things went on Ingoo, and how a bunch of chosen folk got all the right perks, and if such a thing is actually happening here too, then how exactly are we any better...

Well said, brother...

Glad you think so Meg, especially since plenty of others would just consider this a child's rants, even though I just want things to be fair and equal, especially for the people new to the site who don't know people like the back of their hand and would not have Staff's trust. Seems unfair to limit new folks and give a certain group of people the perks they want while the rest barely gets anything.
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PostSubject: Re: Kekkei Tota, Kekkei Genkai and Kettou Kekkei [Fo seriouz] Sat 06 Apr 2013, 4:19 am

Okay, lol.

Let me start by saying, new people here are afforded more opportunities than veterans, statistically. Almost every person who's been given the chance to make a bijuu has been a new person on the site. I've heard a lot of people saying "Only staff get bijuu" for example because people like Setsugekka, MsMoney, Ivan, TwinnyPuppy etc etc have had bijuu and staff positions as have a few others in the past. Whereas what's happened is these people have come to our site and been given the chance to make a Jinchuuriki proven their worth on the site and earned a bijuu spot, Ivan is the exception to this rule and he's been given the shot because regardless of his staff position he's been dedicated to this site for a long time and grasps our expectations well enough to take a spot.

I try really hard not to shitcan Ingoo but lets make a little comparison to how things have operated there in certain scenarios. Staff and friends of there's get benefits and passes on things other people would get torn into for trying to get approved. They were afforded opportunities that others wouldn't be. On one hand, staff members create all the content you see and want to indulge in their creation just like anybody on here that makes a character, clan or jutsu but on the other hand every time somebody does in such a degree.

Like your recent unhinging of Edo Tensei where you view it as it is in the show when our version is obviously so far behind that it's crazy. The most overpowered thing in Naruto in regards to roleplaying forums is Genjutsu seeing as it's practically an instant hit which is breaks one of the golden rules of roleplay ie godmodding straight away yet that's a speciality open to everybody. Truth be told, people like things like the bijuu and the Rasengan and Chidori and we've done our best to bring them onto the site as best we can without having everybody running around with them. But in saying this, literally nobody has applied for any limited jutsu yet.

Things have prerequisites for a reason and I can sit here and tell you about the new people coming here and getting the opportunity to take up Jinchuuriki spots, Jonin and Chunin slots and limited clan spots like yourself, Verg. But people will always claim that it's unfair and there is nothing I can do about it but step in and correct people when they jump to conclusions like you do now. Some things shouldn't just be handed out to anybody because people fail to grasp the way things are supposed to work here. If I'm not mistaken, a moderator today had to justify to you why it wasn't okay for you to be in Kumo and Konoha at the same time despite the rules stating it isn't allowed.

Now finally, for the two Special Characteristics in question, people don't train for them and then get denied. All Special Characteristics have to be requested and approved for training first because people make oversights like thinking they can have the S-rank Speed SC without having Taijutsu or Weaponry. The fact of the matter is, one person has utilized this Special Characteristic, which was Elder Sage who created it practically for his character and decided to throw it up on the open list too. We've been working on revisions for the SC's for a few months, it's been a slow process that has recently become a priority. The removal of these has been planned for some time because removing them as of right now doesn't effect anybody and it would be handled as an individual situation if people ever want anything like this, the same way it would if somebody was applying for Jashin.

I'll allow you to retort if you want because you're free to express yourself here, but this was already solved with my last post which you refuse to accept. So I'll wait for your response and see if you can contribute anything productive before solving.
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PostSubject: Re: Kekkei Tota, Kekkei Genkai and Kettou Kekkei [Fo seriouz] Sat 06 Apr 2013, 4:45 am

I do know about the difference between this place and Ingoo, I am just saying that in several ways, we are starting to slowly head into that kind of depravity, especially when Moderators or Admins don't even want to speak to their members who are experiencing problems with the site. As such, I take off my hat to how you bothered to respond to all this, which is admirable in itself. Now, to go on with what I really wanted to say,

Edo Tensei:
I have seen the site version of the Edo Tensei before I used it as a complain, so no worries there. I have seen that it has been weakened a lot, considering it might just be one of the most OP jutsu in the world, especially when used right. As a former user of the jutsu, I however still see a ton of loopholes around the set weaknesses it has, as well as ways that entirely avoid suffering from the drawbacks, something I just felt that needed to be put out there. I know that Edo Tensei is powerful and that people will always find ways to abuse it, which is why I was ubersad when I heard about people getting said jutsu, or just being able to get it over other jutsu that have been banned but are MUCH more fair in use and drawbacks.

Special privileges:
I get what you are saying about this, though I have not brought it up for my own entertainment, seeing as I brought it up with others to gauge their feelings on the matter as well, since a Rebel without a cause or people to stand behind is about as weak as a rebel in a shark tank. A lot of people feel that they are not getting the things they believe they have earned, bringing up why I asked people to be a bit more lenient and less harsh towards stuff. The people you named got stuff and are Staff, things we cannot deny, so you can't blame people for thinking such things. What you can do is make it easier for people to come to terms with by putting it out there, seeing as half of the things you said just now are completely new to me as well.

Special Jutsu/Powers:
A reason as to why no one has asked for these things is because most of us are still way too weak to get such a thing for themselves, while there are also a lot of jutsu most people can't use, like people who lack the lightning element for Chidori or Fuuinjutsu for Edo Tensei. If people got more active, which they are at the moment, I am certain that there will be a lot more people applying for these things, while others might just be too scared to ask. I know it's weird but it happens a lot more then most people think. Perhaps it would also be a good thing to look over things such as the current banlist to see if other things could be worked into fairness, something I have asked for a couple of months ago too, cause it can easily be done if even the mighty Edo Tensei and Genjutsu can be made fair, ne?

Kekkei Tota/Kekkei Genkai/Kettou Kekkei:
Again, I know what you're talking about with this kind of thing, though I would not remove it if I were you. If people do want such a thing, you have the fitting SC ready for them, rather then forcing them to make a version of it that may or may not be weaker or stronger then this. For the most part, I brought this up for fairness sake, all of these having in common that someone needed to have an Advanced element in the first place, yet nothing allowed them to make a first advanced element, thus limiting it to people who are in Advanced element clans entirely. Now, you said that this would change soon, and I believe that that in itself means that the topic can be closed as that leaves nothing to say until the new drafts come up.


Finally, I wanted to say that I am glad that people gave this as much attention as it got and that staff spent time to talk it over with the people who felt like this needed to be looked at. So thanks for that.
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PostSubject: Re: Kekkei Tota, Kekkei Genkai and Kettou Kekkei [Fo seriouz] Sat 06 Apr 2013, 12:03 pm

I have nothing to add in this topic, just this.

Adam wrote:
Ivan is the exception to this rule and he's been given the shot because regardless of his staff position he's been dedicated to this site for a long time and grasps our expectations well enough to take a spot.

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PostSubject: Re: Kekkei Tota, Kekkei Genkai and Kettou Kekkei [Fo seriouz] Sat 06 Apr 2013, 4:05 pm

Quote :
especially when Moderators or Admins don't even want to speak to their members who are experiencing problems with the site. As such, I take off my hat to how you bothered to respond to all this, which is admirable in itself.

Can I just say that my productivity in areas like the Staff Lounge and flat out staff work are massively held back by the fact that I always drop what I'm doing to speak to members about things especially over skype. I don't always catch every question, or have the right answer to them but I try to afford everybody the opportunity to vent themselves to me if they need to because it's the impression I want to give off, that I care. Obviously there are times where I can be as blunt and abrupt as anybody else but it doesn't the fact that I have the sites best intentions in mind, always. I'd say the same for every person that moderates here or has moderated here. Everybody volunteers for these positions, volunteered to dedicate hours, days, weeks, months and even years to progressing this site in every which way. There are obviously incidents that happen where people don't handle things correctly, by everybody. We're all only human, but to say that it is common practice for staff members to ignore members who have problems here is just about the biggest slap in the face there is.

Quote :
Edo Tensei:
I have seen the site version of the Edo Tensei before I used it as a complain, so no worries there. I have seen that it has been weakened a lot, considering it might just be one of the most OP jutsu in the world, especially when used right. As a former user of the jutsu, I however still see a ton of loopholes around the set weaknesses it has, as well as ways that entirely avoid suffering from the drawbacks, something I just felt that needed to be put out there. I know that Edo Tensei is powerful and that people will always find ways to abuse it, which is why I was ubersad when I heard about people getting said jutsu, or just being able to get it over other jutsu that have been banned but are MUCH more fair in use and drawbacks.

Firstly, you're entitled to your opinion. We spoke about numerous jutsu in depth that weren't added to the list because we thought they couldn't be nerfed well enough or they were nerfed to the point that it defeated the purpose of even having it. In truth, this list was added up as it is because we came to the agreement that we can always add more techniques. So really, more techniques could be added at any time.

Quote :
Special Jutsu/Powers:
A reason as to why no one has asked for these things is because most of us are still way too weak to get such a thing for themselves, while there are also a lot of jutsu most people can't use, like people who lack the lightning element for Chidori or Fuuinjutsu for Edo Tensei. If people got more active, which they are at the moment, I am certain that there will be a lot more people applying for these things, while others might just be too scared to ask. I know it's weird but it happens a lot more then most people think. Perhaps it would also be a good thing to look over things such as the current banlist to see if other things could be worked into fairness, something I have asked for a couple of months ago too, cause it can easily be done if even the mighty Edo Tensei and Genjutsu can be made fair, ne?

But really, we try to give every element and every speciality here something to special in the higher ranks. So just because you have Wind and Earth as your elements and can't get Chidori doesn't mean all is lost, hence why we have the Rasengan. I cannot do anything about people being 'too scared' to ask for something when there is nothing to suggest we discourage people enquiring about such things. As for the second part the paragraph quoted above, I think my last response was justifiable enough and I don't need to write it out again. Razz

Quote :
Kekkei Tota/Kekkei Genkai/Kettou Kekkei:
Again, I know what you're talking about with this kind of thing, though I would not remove it if I were you. If people do want such a thing, you have the fitting SC ready for them, rather then forcing them to make a version of it that may or may not be weaker or stronger then this. For the most part, I brought this up for fairness sake, all of these having in common that someone needed to have an Advanced element in the first place, yet nothing allowed them to make a first advanced element, thus limiting it to people who are in Advanced element clans entirely. Now, you said that this would change soon, and I believe that that in itself me

And to follow up from my last comments, this is the sort of thing that we WOULD be discouraging at the moment because as you've brought up our version of it is slightly broken, needs fixed and taking the power of things like Dust Release into account should definitely be something limited rather than opened to everybody. You jump to the conclusion that we'd make people make things themselves, in regards to their advanced element I thought that may be a given but what restrictions and prerequisites go along with that is something that the staff would surely have to discuss. Obviously we'd have the SC's hidden away in a stored location to refer back on when or rather if that situation ever occurs.
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PostSubject: Re: Kekkei Tota, Kekkei Genkai and Kettou Kekkei [Fo seriouz] Sun 07 Apr 2013, 3:11 am

It is very hard to discuss stuff when people take everything as a personal attack, rather then as a legit argument, just like the topic Megan brought up. People need to let go of the fact that Staff are treated as people by everyone, because a lot of members know that you all are, they just don't care about any of that as long as they get their shit approved. I've been a mod and an Admin on various sites enough to know that it's not fair, but if you are really serious about the things you said, taking things as something other then a personal attack might help, because if every time people bring something up and Staff feels like they are getting their toes stepped on, there won't be a whole lot of improvement.

I agree with the things you brought up, though some of them I would like to talk about at some other time, seeing as this is most likely not the best place to be doing such a thing. Still, there are a few things I do want to point out, since I feel like people are "again" taking the things I am saying like an insult rather then as a way of helping out. I like the site, though there are things that simply need to be taken into account here.

A). The things we as members bring up about something such as SC's and faulty jutsu in this case should be taken serious, not as an offensive means of us to attack you as staff. I saw Megan's topic about the village restriction and how one village cannot see the other, and I don't really feel like she was taken seriously, even though others were on her side, just like how people were on my side with this topic. Taking things serious for the benefit of the site is the way to go, taking things personally when they are not meant as such never helped anyone.

B). I feel like there are things that members on staff are being a bit stubborn about, things like allowing members to bring up a valid case without being made into a public bathroom. There are times when things are being discussed like rational adults, when suddenly the following things pop up.
COOKIE! Kisame Zaru! Cookie Naruto
Some people feel like they know it all and are simply too cocky and prideful to let anyone, no matter how smart or fair that person is being about the topic change their minds. Putting up stuff like that can be taken in a somewhat offensive way, like how I sometimes feel that people using stuff like that are trying to point out the obvious, even though it is not that obvious at all. Maybe I am overstepping my boundaries here, though I would really point out that to some people who feel strongly about something, that crap is just an unneeded insult, just like how people on staff take all problems to heart as if it was about their own life.

Just saying, giving people a chance is nice too. You already let people speak their mind here, which is what makes it into a nice and fair place, though actually doing something with the things they bring up and get support in would also be nice, or it would just be a discussion that ended up being faded by time.
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PostSubject: Re: Kekkei Tota, Kekkei Genkai and Kettou Kekkei [Fo seriouz] Sun 07 Apr 2013, 5:25 am

Celene's Dino wrote:
It is very hard to discuss stuff when people take everything as a personal attack, rather then as a legit argument, just like the topic Megan brought up. People need to let go of the fact that Staff are treated as people by everyone, because a lot of members know that you all are, they just don't care about any of that as long as they get their shit approved. I've been a mod and an Admin on various sites enough to know that it's not fair, but if you are really serious about the things you said, taking things as something other then a personal attack might help, because if every time people bring something up and Staff feels like they are getting their toes stepped on, there won't be a whole lot of improvement.

I agree with the things you brought up, though some of them I would like to talk about at some other time, seeing as this is most likely not the best place to be doing such a thing. Still, there are a few things I do want to point out, since I feel like people are "again" taking the things I am saying like an insult rather then as a way of helping out. I like the site, though there are things that simply need to be taken into account here.

A). The things we as members bring up about something such as SC's and faulty jutsu in this case should be taken serious, not as an offensive means of us to attack you as staff. I saw Megan's topic about the village restriction and how one village cannot see the other, and I don't really feel like she was taken seriously, even though others were on her side, just like how people were on my side with this topic. Taking things serious for the benefit of the site is the way to go, taking things personally when they are not meant as such never helped anyone.

B). I feel like there are things that members on staff are being a bit stubborn about, things like allowing members to bring up a valid case without being made into a public bathroom. There are times when things are being discussed like rational adults, when suddenly the following things pop up.
COOKIE! Kisame Zaru! Cookie Naruto
Some people feel like they know it all and are simply too cocky and prideful to let anyone, no matter how smart or fair that person is being about the topic change their minds. Putting up stuff like that can be taken in a somewhat offensive way, like how I sometimes feel that people using stuff like that are trying to point out the obvious, even though it is not that obvious at all. Maybe I am overstepping my boundaries here, though I would really point out that to some people who feel strongly about something, that crap is just an unneeded insult, just like how people on staff take all problems to heart as if it was about their own life.

Just saying, giving people a chance is nice too. You already let people speak their mind here, which is what makes it into a nice and fair place, though actually doing something with the things they bring up and get support in would also be nice, or it would just be a discussion that ended up being faded by time.

As much as I agree with that, especially the parts about staff learning to not assume every single piece of criticism is a direct attack on them and they are not the end-all-be-all of ability, I don't see them changing anytime soon if ever. Too many of them have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo and as long as they control the process for selecting new staff we're going to keep seeing only those who agree with them selected. The situation reminds me greatly of the first clinic I worked at after getting my license. It started nice and with all kinds of high ideals, but over time ego's became involved and any voice that questioned the existing way things were done was dismissed. In the end the rift became great enough that the newer staff left to start their own practice on the other side of town. The old one puttered on for about two more years before closing due to insufficient clients. Turns out the new staff had been right in many cases and ended up taking the majority of the old practices clients as well as bringing in new ones. I wonder if history will repeat itself here?
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PostSubject: Re: Kekkei Tota, Kekkei Genkai and Kettou Kekkei [Fo seriouz] Sun 07 Apr 2013, 5:45 am

I'dliketosaythatthistopicseemstohavewentoffofitscourse.
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PostSubject: Re: Kekkei Tota, Kekkei Genkai and Kettou Kekkei [Fo seriouz] Sun 07 Apr 2013, 7:13 am

Leighton wrote:
I'dliketosaythatthistopicseemstohavewentoffofitscourse.

And I would like to say that I agree, lol
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PostSubject: Re: Kekkei Tota, Kekkei Genkai and Kettou Kekkei [Fo seriouz] Sun 07 Apr 2013, 12:50 pm

Let me just say that I clearly everybody can jump to conclusions with the intent of peoples words. The only thing I take as personal attacks are personal attacks like when you pin people not agreeing with your opinion as staff not caring about your contributions. People can disagree and do it respectfully without getting personal. I really try to project the belief that staff do not feel like members cannot contribute with stuff. Heck with Meghan's topic I was the one that wanted villages to be permission specific but she had almost convinced me otherwise until Darius made a post. People have compelling arguements for both sides and I don't mind making changes if they are worth it, nobody in the staff does.

I mean, this conversation is about how two SC's are broken and the staff are already working on fixing that. As Vergil and Leighton have said this has just really turned into a bit of a bashing when this could have been really productive and I think it's time to consider it solved.
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